Fixing EORG (mostly)

Niklaz

So after getting banned for my second offense of the EORG rule and finally actually reading it I did some thinking and arrived at a few improvements id make to the whole thing to hopefully avoid dumbasses like me breaking the rule by accident (or in general). I got two main ideas, one is a rule change and one is a game change to better follow current rules.

Firstly, the game change:

If admins do not wish for the changing of the current rules then the best course of action would be doubling down and instead of simply telling people you cant attack at centcom do it so ALL players that arrive SPECIFICALLY through the escape shuttle (to avoid spawned in personnel like CBURN from doing their job) get pacifism added on them. It should cover most forms of EORG. Im pretty sure some other server did that too, either Starlight or Delta, dont really remember tbh and im too lazy to check.

Second:

Just make people be able to do what they are normally allowed to do on station at centcom (maybe except bombing). The whole idea of the EORG rule is to allow roleplay to CONTINUE to CC for a bit. Key word continue. If the intention is to continue roleplay then just let people do same things they could on station, the rules that already existed should be more than enough to avoid trolling and griefing anyways. Now if someone wishes to beat someone up because they figured out they killed their friend then Id say thats roleplay too.

Tbh I for the longest time thought the EORG rules are the same as most servers where the same rules apply as when you are on station. Im having difficulty understanding why its the way it is (meaning NO violence on another player is allowed). Feel free to give a reason its this way in case im missing something.

frostwight

Currently, the situations that fall under the umbrella of EORG are as follows:

RDM. (Random Deathmatch)
Unroleplayed, sudden, nonconsensual violence (i.e. duels are allowed, reasonable arrests are allowed, absolutely PROPER escalation into violence is allowed.) Note that "I found out they killed my friend because of the post game popup" and "They are my objective" are not good reasons for violence, and will be seen as EORG. If you had an in-character grudge, roleplay it out before you begin attacking them, ensure it's escalated properly and undeniably.
Deconstruction, destruction, or defacing of any CentComm assets, or of the Evacuation shuttle at any point of its existence. (This includes Bombing [ANY KIND OF EXPLOSIVE IS PROHIBITED] and RCD, as well as spamming the RCD's light fixture feature to spawn MANY lights)
Any form of incredibly bothersome behavior that you would not have done in-character on the station. (Stop slipping sec while they're taking a criminal to the CentComm brig, stun batoning people for fun, etc)

I believe the reason we have not implemented pacifism is due to the fact we would rather place trust in our players to avoid any of those situations at End-of-Round, than take such overly-restrictive approach.
I hope this addresses your concerns as well as clears up any confusion on the rule.

Niklaz

When I did my ban appeal I was told that NO form of violence is allowed on any player and no exceptions and thats why I was being banned even tho I had proper motives so now im just confused. Based on my experience those criteria mentioned are not the ones the rules are enforced with so idk what to say (heres what was told to me exactly "While your ban has expired, I feel it is important to inform you that the notes on your behaviour will be remaining.
Regardless of justification, disruption and violence at CentComm after the round ends are not allowed for any reason. It's a blanket rule, applied no matter what your intent is")

frostwight

Niklaz Unfortunately, someone simply trying to remove you from a mech, while frustrating, is not proper, undeniable motive to attack them at End-of-Round. While that may have been acceptable during the round if they were bothering you enough to warrant a few attacks to get them to leave, doing so at End-of-Round would have been seen as EORG. Furthermore, if you are carrying an ID and a cyborg is not listening to your orders to stop doing something, that is ahelpable. Unreasonable failure to follow borg laws is a rule break, and this includes at End-of-Round. This is obviously null if the cyborg does not have their default laws. So you may want to have it state laws.

Niklaz

btw when I gave the example of "if someone wishes to beat someone up because they figured out they killed their friend" I meant if the killer admits it on CC. Didnt mean the round summary. Violence based on that is indeed very bad.

frostwight

Niklaz Thank you for specifying, as that is exactly how I interpreted what you said; I do, however feel it is necessary to point that out regardless!

Niklaz

But I would be allowed to attack a borg under normal round conditions right? If a borg was chasing me around no matter what I told it and was trying to remove me id be perfectly fine attacking it right? I dont even think sec would care (law wise). Borgs arent the same as humans are they? Rule wise I mean

frostwight

Niklaz When I say acceptable, I mean in the eyes of the admins, and as long as it's not round removed or chased down to keep attacking it when it leaves you alone. Sec can and will still arrest you for it. Proper escalation can warrant lots of violence between two players as long as it is reasonable and doesn't result in round-removal, mass sabotage, or mass murder.

I will request that you ask a cyborg's laws before you attack it, though.

Niklaz

I simply shot it a bit with a laser... didnt even crit it. Anyways, I checked the rules the way they appear on the server and I feel like the way you described what is considered EORG is wayyyyyy better than the two lines that are on the server. Changing it to that might give some clarity in the whole thing. Thanks for specifying.

taydeo

Niklaz

https://github.com/funky-station/funky-station/pull/598

I recommend leaving a comment about the unclear rules here, as they are being reviewed in this PR.

oBerry

I'd like to add that there's a hidden benefit to not "fixing" this. It lets us find people who don't read server rules before playing. EORG catches a huge amount of people who fail to read rules, so it's a great litmus test. Just read server rules before playing here, and you won't EORG.