Crawling/Prone changes

Autumn | Rose Hise

I definitely agree that crawling needs a nerf but making it so you cant use your hands just, is not it. Its cheap and honestly does not even solve the core problem with crawling (bullets missing you). Instead make it so instead of outright missing you bullets have like a 25% chance to miss. This allows for "dodging" moments without the insanity of how it is rn.

Melts

Its likely a better fix will come along in time, but we did feel the current fix will resolve many of the issues we were seeing, which largely revolved around the use of weaponry while prone. The legitimate discussion that occured was "this is so bad, can we just completely remove crawling all together" -- "no, lets not do that. Its used for a lot of RP stuff and adds nuance to the game that is fun. What could we change about it to fix the specific issue we are seeing". You are right that a major part of the issue is the way the bullets miss someone while prone, and this may be adjusted and changes may be implemented later that allow this change to be reverted, or tweaked. At the same time though, the major issue we were seeing was the abuse of the combination of essentially what amounts to invulnerability while prone, and some form of attacking. With this change, the combination of the two is no longer possible, and it does not remove most of the things about being prone that are fun, quirky, and add to gameplay.
The legitimate stance of multiple administrators was "completely remove this. Its causing serious issues because people are abusing it".
The removal of characters abilities to dextrously use their hands was a compromise that 1. Makes sense, if you are crawling you probably can't really effectively use your hands and 2. Immediately nerfs (essentially removes) the WORST part about prone combat. The combat part.

Also, thank you for making a forum post instead of just talking in general. I don't think I am alone in wanting to see some discourse on this and get ideas on how we could imrpove it from here. And if adding the ability to use hands again is part of the end result I am all for it.

Sullivas

Opinions are cheap but I have many to offer. Here are suggestions I have:

Going prone causes wielded items to drop, unwield them first.
Unable to wield melee weapons while prone (Salvagers work on their feet!)
Wielding (ranged weapons) while prone takes an extra interaction time
Almost zero movement speed while wielding and prone
Severe accuracy penalty for unwielded weapons while prone
50% damage reduction if attacking from prone in melee (you are fighting gravity to swing), becomes 25% less damage if in zero-G (less room to swing)
Stamina damage of melee weapons reduced to 1/4 (essentially useless) when used while prone
Interactions while prone take twice the amount of time (can still use meds, but it is cumbersome)
Unable to push while prone
Can drag while prone
Having two different items in both hands while prone prevents movement, dragging counts as a different item
Unable to construct, deconstruct, anchor, unanchor, or crowbar doors while prone.
Welding walls works while prone, whereas welding doors does not.
Can unbuckle from chairs/beds while prone. Cannot buckle into chairs while prone. Can buckle into beds while prone.
Can escape from cuffs while prone. Cannot restrain while prone.
Cannot strip others while prone; Can strip self
Standing players can strip prone players faster - This applies to players buckled into beds as if they were prone
Can turn on others and own internals while prone
Cannot throw items while prone
Unable to vault others while prone
Can vault self while prone
Can enter disposal chutes as normal while prone
Ranged weapons have a 75% chance to miss a prone character, unless within two tiles of the shooter where it becomes 10% chance to miss
Anyone can prone underneath tables with an interaction
Having no legs forces prone
Having one leg triples stand up time

Reasoning:
1) Melee from prone should be desperate and strictly a losing position for the prone character.
2) Prone should have a place in long range combat stalemates, with very slow movement allowing peeking and encouraging the slowdown of combat. This makes drawn out ranged combat more resource intensive, encouraging RP resolution (or just safer trash talking), and makes flank plans more effective. Also, it gives a place for single shot weapons to shine.
3) Going prone while being swarmed by enemies should be a good way to sacrificially maximize damage to a force with superior numbers, as accuracy matters less! Would lead to more mechanically reflective last-stand moments (e.g. captain being swarmed by a mob of nukies in his bedroom goes down guns blazing, prone in a corner).
4) Noncombatants should be rewarded for going prone and hiding from combat, rather than being (un)intentional meatshields. Antags not trying to kill said prone people should be able to avoid killing bystanders.
5) Stealing while prone should not happen. Being stolen from while prone should be trivial, especially when thieves are taking advantage of chaos.

Autumn | Rose Hise

Sullivas honestly all of these are really really good ideas except the miss chance and the crawling under tables. I think the miss chance should be reversed, this removes the issue of being able to crawl up to people actively shooting at you and allows you to shoot over your buddies, most of the time. Ofc it would still be the same where aiming directly at a prone person never misses too. Crawling under tables is just... no. Its busted and probably part of why they overhauled the traits.

funnyfurby

The only major issue I have with the prone/crawling change is not being able to use your hands at all is rough. Even if you're laying in a bed you can't even open your bag or grab something off the floor next to you. Maybe making it so combat specifically doesn't work while prone? Having to get up to use my hands in any way is just. Not fun

Rats

Honestly I feel like what needs to occur is to have the mechanics of how prone work divide it into two main uses

casually being/going prone: slipping, stunned, etc
combat oriented prone: going prone while wielding a weapon

I feel that

prone movement should be dependent on how free your hands are, one hand is a small debuff, two hands is a medium, and if you're wielding an item it's a large debuff, to recognize how you need to move your arm and hands to move while prone.
Limited ability to have bullets fly over you, but allow some bullets to still hit you, and aiming at a player with your mouse is able to negate the miss (as it is already in the game)

Everything else I think is fine, the most important thing (I believe) was the dodging bullets and movement ability that prone to the most part did not do well to help. This also enables prone to still be advantageous, but not outright over powered for a combat scenario, trading in movement for getting hit at less when ranged, and still allowing combatants a chance to hit you at range instead of just aiming in a direction and hoping to hit you.