corrupt sec is incomplete

[2DSiggy]

Ok so I saw the motd on cirno cause I hopped on for a round and it was about how sec is allowed to be corrupt and honestly I was whatever about it but then I was listening to music on my ride home and I heard the song where the revolution audio stinger comes from on upstream so it made me kinda think about the motd and now it makes me wanna yap about it now I have no memory whatsoever of what the motd exactly said so I'm just going off memory.

Off Topic

Basically it said something along the lines of "people shouldn't be trying to make friends with sec and sec shouldnt be nice to the crew."

Overall? I like this direction and I think it's going to be interesting to see on funky in the future but it's currently seemingly only implemented halfway because this interaction is only really fun for one party until a specific culture issue is solved. Now I've been away from funky for a while because I've just been burnt out so maybe it's gotten better but not nearly enough players, especially nonantagonist civvies are willing to actually push back against security kicking them with the boot and security seems to think "being corrupt" is only "abusing crew members" instead of actually like doing corrupt shit like taking bribes (I will get to this later actually), making captured antags go fight invaders, and also not really giving a shit about crime when "I don't feel like it- I mean, I'm off duty."

I'm going to reiterate I like corrupt security. I think security should be frankly an antagonistic force against the crew though when the players have yet to realize that they can actually retaliate against security for abuse, there will never be any actual rp around the corruption beyond shitsec being yelled over the intercom in brig if mappers even remembered to put one there (several brigs if I remember right don't have intercoms which makes being brigged an even worse part of the game.)

So, what am I getting at? I think in it's current form security does not function in a way that is interesting due to server culture, people playing the role with the wrong idea in mind, and also lacking mechanics.

Culture is the easiest thing to solve. It needs to be drilled into players that retaliating against sec for mistreatment is warranted and good roleplay and encouraged. Security teams that don't fear the masses cannot function properly with corruption. If that corruption fails to be covered up, security should HAVE to respond, even pretending to acquiesce to the demands of the people by "demoting" the officer in question (only changing the ID job and placing them in plainclothes so that people don't think they're a cop anymore.) It, in my opinion at least, is a far more interesting roleplay when a scandal boils over so security has to respond to it either by beating the people that are upset or by surrendering.

The role of security, in my experience, is played mostly by people desiring only to redtext antags. This is a fundamental failure of understanding what security exists for. Security exists in game to protect the station from threats. Not all antagonists are outright threats to the station's safety or integrity. A thief stealing people's crowbars or whatever is not on the same threat level as a nukie. A disarmed heretic is not on the same level as a replicator swarm actively chewing through maints. These players who only seem to care about redtexting antags do not roleplay with antagonists. An antagonist trying to roleplay with them to try to negotiate something is often just met with the silent treatment instead of leading to proper roleplay with the idea of corruption that this server clearly desires. Not to mention it just suffocates the fun and chaotic possibility for sicing an antag onto another. I remember when changelings were still enabled I would constantly try to convince security "I am more valuable alive to you than dead," because in the setting of the world, this is a fact. A captured changeling? Imagine what nanotrasen could do using their research teams. Synthesizing omnizine from their blood. DNA refinement to the perfect extent. The money would print itself. Not to mention the in round interaction of the changeling. The changeling agreeing to be contained and being a constant stressor. The HoS hiding this fact from the NTR so they don't get fired, hoping that this could make them millions if they bring it to central alive. The changeling biding their time to get the perfect opportunity to escape purely just through talking and manipulation instead of using abilities. The security team bringing the changeling in to interrogate after someone went missing even though the changeling had an alibi. The changeling being given a plushie with the nuke disk in order to play dead for a nukie after disguising as the captain, waiting for the nukie to come over before springing back to life and stinging the terrorist with toxins before devouring the man. All of this is lost by people thinking "me security. Me job redtext antags." Part of this rant is fueled by my own experiences with security refusing to entertain this idea and not just with changelings. I tried doing this with heretic too when a replicator swarm was going to murder everyone and the hos decided instead of letting me speak to the NTR to explain "Hey maybe it's better for me to like join and fight those fucking robot things than to shove me in a cell. You can oubliette me after." The HoS decided that this interesting interaction was actually bad so they tried to oubliette me anyways. Managed to escape using teleportation. Story aside, the corruption security is supposed to wield does not work if their only corrupt acts are violence against the crew.

As for mechanical lacking, this mainly goes to forky. What exactly makes it so a sec player would accept a bribe using scrip? This is probably just me being clueless about the functions of scrip. Would a bribe using scrip be encouraged for security to take in exchange for not arresting a person? Would Security actually listen to the bribe or just shoot the guy? Would the bribe carry over to be spending money in future rounds for the officer? I'm asking alot of questions but I feel these are warranted. I also feel like without proper union implementation any form of corrupt sec is going to be one-sided and not in an interesting manner.

Edit: got the motd.

A reminder that security and command are the crews bosses not their friends, they can be corrupt, and are aligned to NT, not the crew, the companies. Secoffs dont need to be fired for being corrupt, only really when it serves company interests. I doubt many of you would jump at the chance to be friends with police in real life, much like your characters, unless your character is also an areshole

[ParabrA]

I feel like this is kinda an issue that plagues most departments (maybe besides service?). I play a decent bit of sec, and maybe too much medical, and both departments have issues with "winning" the game. As a doctor its how many people can you get in and get out as quick as possible. As a chemist its pumping out chems till your fingers bleed. As you motioned for sec its seeing that sweet sweet redtext.

It'll be cool to see how this develops in forky. I do think the scrip will help especially if we have to pay for our own food, smokes, and beverages. It might come down to how wages are balanced. An officer would be more willing to accept a bribe if it meant that they got paid dirt compared to the scientist or chemist. I don't think the scrip carrying over would be a good idea however maybe if your a senior officer you get paid a little more. Maybe the HoS could set a quota for arrests and searches, and once reached the officer gets a bonus. Maybe having role objectives could help too. For example, maybe as a secoff you have to aquire at least 120 scrip by evac, or collect 5 contra plants from the botanist, giving players their own personal greentext might deter them for tunnel visioning on the redtext.

As of right now, its honestly just a rp issue which I don't think mechanics can save too much. What I've found playing sec is if i initiate the rp, other players are, usually, more willing to rp back.

[NeonLight133]

only issue i see with retaliation is theres only really two ways, revolt which is hard to coordinate when issues usually rise late in round or to go legal route which as of now in funky is dead in the water bar a few players but i agree that the culture right now isnt for it but i dont see it as a bad thing, just an issue of the way funky is in a whole, lots of unique memerable characters leads to meta friending even if you dont realise ya do it (best example is mert who everyone loves)

[Haigee]

I fully agree with this post and I also think it has a large PART to play in why "revolutions" never turn violent (although that is a different discussion).

I think ultimately it stems from what security is as a role and what it has access to. It's basically the "take commands, do shit" role, in nearly every other role you can do something "on your own", as a surgeon I setup surgery and get materials, as a botanist I get to choose what to make etc. But as a secoff you are conditioned by culture and opportunities into playing a minion for the HoS/Cap. The fact that you are completely oblivious to command coms adds to this further by putting a large layer of fog over what is going on in the station.

What I have recently started doing as secoff is playing more "corrupt" and trying to find venues of personal power. Such as threatening botany, doing favours for science etc. to get meth pills or whatever.
But I feel a distinct lack of incentive to do stuff like that, because security already has access to almost everything it needs and it does feel very "powergamery" to minmax get all the "super items" as a secoff.

There needs to be something to actually bribe security with.

As a detective information is key and I LOVE becoming best buds and doing /very illegal/ things with the assistants to get information. There information becomes the valuable thing.

But for a secoff there is nothing really to get apart from "things that makes me kill stuff easier", which in turn makes it easier to kill stuff, which in turn makes the game boring for the antags and the secoffs.

To make it more constructive here /something/ which might lead to sidegoals for security:

.) An unfinished security shuttle they can spend time building so they get a space option
-Not a huge upside for the department but a fun resource drain for idle secoffs

.) A security teleportation network that can be setup through sci research and resources, allowing quick one-way teleportation to various department entrances
-Useful but not round defining

.) Stasis Capsule, which can be used to freeze someone in time preventing damage
-Rare stasis cores can be found in maints by tiders and security can print stasis containers to make them

I might get around to actually coding some of these as a fun project but these are supposed to just be rough suggestions over what could be added