Little bit of a rant about ghost roles

John B Dingle

Melts You went from "space law could be interpreted as such" to "space law literally says it bud"
😐️

Melts

I directly quoted the space law, and said you COULD interpret it to mean "only stuff that talks", but probably the more accurate way to interpret it is things controlled by players.

My tune never changed, its just a matter of how you define sentient, which I seem to define differently than you, but the terminology is unchanged in the actual laws.

Melts

John B Dingle what role is this?

John B Dingle

Melts Janitor

Eats-The-Crew

*gurgles.

Melts

Thats not in their SOP
Is it a thing they CAN do? yea.
Is it their "literal job"?
nope.

John B Dingle

Melts The SOP isn't a strict set of rules nor is it a list of job definitions. It's a set of loose guidelines to follow which are very malleable. The janitor is equipped with rat traps, garbage bags in which rats and critters may be placed, and their only literal job is to clean the station. Rats and critters are typically widely seen as "unclean" and so yes, it is the janitor's literal job to kill rats.

Melts

SOP is a textbook definition of job duties and expectations. That is literally what Standard operating procedure means.

again, CAN the janitor make it their DUTY to kill vermin on station?
Yea.
Is it their "only job" or even a "requirement or expectation of their job"
no.

John B Dingle

Melts Pretty sure the server owner and admins have said multiple times that you shouldn't follow the SOP strictly since it's just guidelines to follow. It even says in the SOP iirc that you shouldn't follow it to a T.

Also, it doesn't define the expectations of the job. It defines procedures that should take place in event of certain circumstances

Eats-The-Crew

*thumps his tail.

Kalli

Eats-The-Crew I 'ungry.

Melts

I'm not arguing about following SOP to a T.
I am telling you that SOP is THE textbook definition of what the job is expected to do and supposed to be doing. You can go above and beyond, you can ignore it.
But SOP is the definition of the tasks required of the job.

John B Dingle

Melts Ok but at the end of the day that doesn't matter. Killing rats being an 'extra thing' that janitors 'can do' (hint hint, their only strict job SOP expectation really is to respond to calls from crew anyways) doesn't change the fact that they're seen as ethically okay to kill on sight. They're literally pests. I'm just trying to say that pests aren't entitled to life just because they're friendly

Melts

Space law, which is different from SOP, applies all of the assault laws, battery, murder, attempted murder, etc. to
sentient creatures.
So actually, the fact that its friendly means nanotrasen and space law think it IS entitled to life.
again we can disagree on what sentient means, that's fine. But my argument is that you have a duty to determine if a vermin IS sentient, ergo none of them can be KOS, otherwise you might be committing murder.

Melts

And because the mouse cannot come back and report you for murder, and most people never revive dead mice to ask what happened, you will probably often get away with murder.
But you SHOULDN'T, because its antag behavior

John B Dingle

Melts Meh. I don't think the ghost role mice should be 'sentient' as there's already lots of ways for critters and alike to become "officially" sentient. There should probably be clarification on this. I think it's a little silly to say that killing a rat would constitute murder, though

Melts

If I were a lawyer and I had a moth roach pet that was a ghost role I would absolutely prosecute you for murdering my sentient moth roach.
And I think I could probably win if I had witnesses of the mothroach being smart/ doing flips/ whatever.

Either way though, the fact that the ghost role vermins CAN become sentient, regardless of your personal threshhold for when you think that status is acquired, means they CANNOT be KOS.

John B Dingle

Melts It's different when you're killing someone's pet. Of course you would probably win the case. If it's just a random pest then you probably would lose though

Melts

Yea, I wouldn't even know about it if it weren't my pet or my friend or whatever.
All I am saying though, is that as a player, the fact that you know those critters CAN be sentient, and therefore killing them COULD potentially be murder, they CANNOT automatically be KOS for you. You must make some attempt to determine if they are sentient - asking them to speak if you say cogni is the threshhold for sentience.
asking them to do a flip to prove they are a player. whatever it is. They cannot be KOS

John B Dingle

Melts Well. I don't consider the critters to be 'canonically sentient' if they're just random ghostrole critters. Besides, I'm not going to make the effort of making sure that this random pest actually has human-level intelligence and self-awareness (that's a tad ridiculous). Also;

I kill rat

frostwight

Counterpoint: felinid players get hungry sometimes. tasty snack runnin around on the floor im gonna eat it

Melts

frostwight I'm metagruding you

« Previous Page Next Page »